I personally put a lot of stake into old books and writings, I’m working on my masters for Lit, so I sort of have to read the oldies. While I personally tend to more identify with Christianity the most, (mostly because I was raised catholic and I rather enjoy the teachings of Jesus) but I do realize that no religion has it right, we are all fallible men and have no idea what is right or wrong. I look at the sky and the earth and the depth of things around me and I can’t help but feel that some Celestial presence had something to do with it all. I feel like God has gotten a bad name because of the shortcomings and greed of man. Call it nature, call it God, but to me the workings of the world are a lot more complicated than Atheism projects.
Other than that, I love the site. Information and dialogue are never a bad thing. Keep it up!
Posted: October 5th 2009
Akusai www
To be completely honest, I feel like they’re the kind of people who have to get into a pool starting with the shallow end.
The same arguments that lead one to reject religion as a system of supernatural beliefs lend themselves to rejection of a traditional concept of “spirituality.”
Defined as “awe” or a feeling of transcendence, I think spirituality loses its specific meaning; if one can be spiritual with being spiritual, so to speak, then the word means everything and thus nothing and ceases to be useful.
I prefer to relegate the word “spiritual” to its traditional sense as a designator of certain supernatural beliefs or tendencies, and reject it along with religion.
Posted: October 12th 2009
George Locke
First of all, I, an atheist, read and enjoy religious texts (the Zhuangzi is probably my favorite book). I am sympathetic to Joseph Campbell’s view that religious texts demonstrate universal truths about the human condition, at least in the best cases. I used to meditate more regularly, and I have learned from the few “visionary” type experiences I’ve had.
We must all accept that the world is more complex than we can know and that some of what we do “know” must be wrong. The fact that I can’t explain everything does not suggest divine intervention.
In general, ignorance of the cause of X doesn’t suggest any particular cause. In particular, not knowing a scientific explanation doesn’t suggest that there isn’t one, and it certainly doesn’t suggest a supernatural explanation.
This may be a bit presumptuous of me, but I sense in you an intuition that there is something more to the world than meets the eye and a desire for this 'something more’ to be something marvelous and perhaps benevolent. Whatever this 'something more’ might be, I suggest you just consider it a mystery until you have convincing evidence that points you in one direction or another. Likening the mystery to “god” is putting the cart before the horse (since you don’t know what it is, you don’t know if it’s god-like). Either that or you’re divesting the word “god” of its understood meaning, merely using it to refer to that unknown “something more” and then turning around and saying, Look, there’s god!
Regarding what atheism projects, I would like to point out that atheism is hardly a monolithic wordlview. Properly speaking, it isn’t even a worldview at all (it’s just a lack of belief). While it’s true that prominent atheists such as Dawkins or Hitchens promote a sort of hard-nosed naturalism, Sam Harris espouses a sort of atheist spiritualism. Despite accusations of “faith” in materialism, atheism is a big tent, and people like you or I, who see value in 'transcendental experience’, whatever you want to call it, are certainly welcome. I would caution you to avoid letting your sense of mystery get carried away, though.
Posted: October 7th 2009
Dave Hitt www
“Spirituality” is a very fuzzy term that can mean just about anything.
You may be confusing it with awe. Atheists, being human (really, we are) experience awe just as often as religious people. A beautiful woman, a magnificent landscape, a moving piece of music, a Cuban Montecristo #2, an amazing meal – all are awe inspiring.
We can even be awed by religious art. Although I don’t believe the sentiments it expresses, I’m thunderstruck by the beauty of Handel’s Hallelujah Chorus, especially the version done by The Roach Sisters.
Posted: October 6th 2009
Eric_PK
Well, speaking as an atheist, my primary concern is those whose beliefs have a big impact on mine, and your religious beliefs would seem to have little impact, so I’m fine with them.
I am a bit concerned about your spiritual beliefs, as they seem to be at least compatible with a lot of the alternative medicine junk that is out there, and the anti-science side of spiritualism can be harmful.
Posted: October 5th 2009
SmartLX www
More complicated concepts of the supernatural than the standard monotheistic deities may well do a better job of explaining people’s “spiritual” experiences, but they’re not furnished with any more or less evidence. That makes a nebulous “Celestial presence” no more satisfying for me than someone like Yahweh.
Spiritual experiences need not have anything to do with the supernatural, however. A sense of the sublime or the transcendent can be rooted in that which we see and feel, rather than that which we don’t.
Posted: October 5th 2009